Tom Dooling was a pitcher
on the great 1959 Selma team that included Johnny Lipon, Doc
Edwards, Gerry Fosnow, Max Alvis and Larry Brown. Tom had a great
year that season and was integral to the success of the ’59 team.
I interviewed him in October, 2000.
[View Tom Dooling’s
Afl Stats]
SP:
How did you get started playing ball?
TD: I played
in high school, of course, and I just loved it. I played basketball
and a short stint in football too. I was recruited by several
colleges, but I never went. I was signed out of high school which
was common in those days. They liked to get a ballplayer at 16,
17 or 18 years of age and start them in the system. I know that
college has probably replaced a lot of that today, but I think
most major league clubs still like to get someone right out of
high school and have them enter their system because they can
teach them their way of playing. That’s how I started, signed
out of high school, and my first assignment was Cocoa in the
Florida State League. I arrived there sometime during the middle
of the season because I’d just gotten out of school (in June)
and they’d already started their season in the spring.
SP: Was that considered an
instructional league?
TD: No, that was a D league.
Back then the lowest starting point was Rookie League, and the
next step up would be D League, then C, B, A, then AA and AAA.
Of course, they’ve consolidated all of them now. The Florida
State League was a D league and a fairly good one.
SP: Was it a big step for
you to go from high school to D ball?
TD: Oh yes! You were dominant
in high school and when you entered class D you found out that
everybody was pretty good. It was an awakening as far as your
abilities. I played semi-pro ball in the summers during high
school and the fellas would tell me, « This is just as good
as minor league ball », so I felt like I wouldn’t have any
problems. After I signed, I found out that semi-pro isn’t as
good as minor league ball, it may not even be close!
SP: Were you signed by a major
league scout?
TD: Hal Reisen, who lived
in New Jersey, signed me. He was a full-time Cleveland scout.
He had been at several of the games I had pitched in. There were
several scouts I had spoken with from the Red Sox and the Yankees
too.
SP: What would they tell you
when they wanted to sign you. Would they give you an honest appraisal
of your abilities?
TD: They’d never come right
out and tell you they could see you pitching in the big leagues
but they would tell you they thought you had the ability.
SP: So you finished the year
(1957) at Cocoa and then went to Batavia (NY) in 1958. How did
that come about?
TD: The way it usually worked
was at the end of the season or during the winter, you would
receive a contract, say, for a place like Minot (ND). But when
you went to spring training, even though you had a Minot contract,
that didn’t necessarily mean you would go there. You would be
placed according to where they felt you needed to be or what
manager in spring training wanted you.
SP: I assume you didn’t spend
your winters training like they do now.
TD: Oh no, I went to work
as soon as I got home. I had a friend who worked at a manufacturing
company and I worked there in the off season.
SP: In spring training, did
they divide the camp up or were you there with the guys in the
majors?
TD: Cleveland players would
spring train in Arizona and the rest of us would train in Daytona
Beach. Daytona had the players from Class D to AAA. In spring
training, you may play one day with the B club and the next with
the AA club. I think they would go over the rosters each day
and check your progression. A manager of the AA club might say,
« I’d like to have a look at this guy ». Then you’d pitch
and he might like you or he might lose interest and you might
be at another level the next game.
SP: So what classification
was Batavia in 1958?
TD: Batavia was a Class D
team.
SP: What was the NY-Penn league
like in those days?
TD: It wasn’t too bad. Of
course, in those days the busses didn’t have air conditioning
or restrooms but the trips weren’t too bad. The league wasn’t
a particularly strong league. The Batavia club was kind of a
weak hitting, poor fielding club. If you were a pitcher for them,
it was kind of a nightmare. It was nothing like the Selma club
I played for.
SP: In 1959 you were with
the Selma Cloverleafs of the AFL.
TD: Before we broke spring
training that year, I was assigned to the Selma club. We were
playing intra-squad games with clubs that were A and AA and we
were beating them. We didn’t lose a game. I knew when we left
spring training that we were good. Before we broke camp I knew
that we had the players.
SP: That Selma club had 5
major leaguers. Lipon had already been there, but Alvis, Brown,
Edwards and Fosnow were just getting started.
TD: Those guys made it up
to the majors within a couple years. There were quite a few guys
that made it from that 1959 season. I remember Steve Barber.
He had great stuff but he had trouble getting people out. He
had a lot of strikeouts.
SP: He was a bit wild back
then.
TD: Oh yeah. It wasn’t really
hard to beat him and score a lot of runs off him. He’d walk two
or three and then he’d start aiming the ball and somebody would
really drill one off him. He really had problems, but near the
end of that season, they promoted him (to Amarillo) and the next
year he was in the majors.
SP: And that first season
with Baltimore he won 10 games and had a good ERA.
TD: Of course the Alabama-Florida
League was a tougher league!!!!
SP: That Pensacola team (in
1959) had Barber, Bo Belinsky and Cal Ripken, Sr.
TD: I remember Bo Belinsky
was in the same category was Barber: He threw real hard but had
trouble finding the plate. In fact, I had trouble finding the
plate at times.
SP: What was your best pitch?
TD: I had a good fastball,
slider, and curveball, but the fastball was probably my best
pitch. It made my curveball more effective. In Selma I came up
with an effective slider toward the end of the season. It acted
like a change-up.
SP: Who were the hitters that
gave you trouble in the AFL?
TD: Montgomery had a fellow
named J.J. Bethea who was hard to figure out. He’d hit the fastball,
the curve, the change-up.
SP: He was the home run leader
that year, tied with Pete Walski.
TD: There was another fellow
named J.C. Dunn, with Dothan. He was a player-manager there.
He and I had a good rivalry going. I feel that I got the best
of him though. I remember he got a hit off of me one time when
we were playing in Selma, and the next guy also hit and J.C.
went to third. Doc Edwards came to the mound and Max Alvis did
too. Doc said, « Look, I know they’ll send the runner on
first and when they do, J.C.’s gonna head home. He’s dying to
come home. After you throw the pitch, just step off a little
bit. Instead of throwing through (to second), I’ll let you have
the ball. Max, you stay on third ». It worked: The guy on
first went, Doc threw the ball to me and Dunn was caught between
third and home. Dunn just stopped and put his hands to his sides
and gave up.
SP: The Selma pitching staff
was very strong that year.
TD: We had Claude Pinder,
who was an outstanding pitcher. I felt like Claude had the ability
to go to the big leagues. He had a good fastball and slider and
good control. He was used as a starter and reliever and always
did a good job. Then we also had Gerry Fosnow, and he went to
the big leagues. Gerry had a good breaking ball and outstanding
control. He could spot the ball, kind of on the order of Tom
Glavine. He didn’t throw as hard as Glavine though. He didn’t
throw hard but it goes to show that the pin-point control is
what counted, and what got him to the big leagues. Fosnow won
a lot of games with us. We also had a guy named Bob Gordon who
was a good pitcher, and a guy named Carl Morrow.
SP: As I remember, there were
not more than 6 or 7 guys on the Cloverleafs that had a significant
number of innings for the season. You guys must have had to start
and relieve.
TD: Yes. Back in those days
you had do it all. There wasn’t any pitching 5 or 6 innings and
giving way to a middle reliever. When you went out there, you
were expected to go 9. Of course, you did get relief help but
there wasn’t the concept of middle reliever, short reliever,
closer. Everyone had to relieve some. I did some relief work.
One stint stands out. I don’t want to give the impression that
I’m tooting my own horn about this but I relieved in a game for
Fosnow that was memorable. He pitched only one inning and I think
it was Fort Walton that got 6 runs off him in that inning. I
came in and relieved him and pitched 8 innings of no-hit ball.
We ended up winning the game, which is even better. Fosnow went
to the big leagues and I stayed in Selma!
SP: Were there any players
that you thought were sure to make it to the majors that didn’t?
TD: Well, Pinder was one that
had such great stuff that I thought he’d make it. Another was
Keith Williams. I just couldn’t see any way that he wouldn’t
make it as far as ability is concerned. The ones that did make
it, like Max Alvis and Larry Brown, were great players. It was
very evident that Max would make it. Larry had all the tools
needed to make it too. Doc Edwards was the same way. He had a
good arm and was a good defensive catcher. He could hit too.
Doc had a lot of baseball sense, and he’d been around a bit more
than most of us. Doc and I were pretty close. Anyway, I knew
before we left spring training that year that we were an exceptional
club and we probably could have played in their A classification
and won.
SP: Any idea why so many good
players ended up in Class D that season?
TD: It was unusual. I think
they were just kind of playing with the mix in spring training
and it worked out that way. Back then, there were less major
league teams and it was harder to get to the majors because there
were less positions available than today.
SP: More good players were
playing in the minors at all levels.
TD: Yes, you had to be exceptional
to make it on a team, exceptional to get noticed, and exceptional
to get promoted. I guess that’s the way it is even on everyday
jobs outside of sports. You know, the athletes today are much
better trained than we were. They have access to better coaching
and better organized leagues.
SP: Do you think that having
Johnny Lipon coaching may have been part of the reason that so
many good players ended up in Selma?
TD: Well Johnny was a good
guy to play for. He was easy going and he was the type of fella
that if he had confidence in you, that was all that was necessary.
He’d give you the ball and say, « Go get ’em ». I think
I enjoyed playing for Johnny Lipon more than anybody.
SP: Let’s go back to the season
before Selma (1958). You were promoted from Batavia to Minot
in the Northern League. What was prairie baseball like?
TD: Long bus trips, a tremendous
amount of driving. The road trips would be to places like Eau
Claire, Grand Forks, Winnipeg. We’d stay in the oldest, cheapest
hotels in town on the road trips. We’d get $6 to $8 a day for
meal money on the road and you could eat on that. It was hard
but you could do it. Those were good days though. That particular
league had cool weather. It would be real hot in the dead of
summer but real cool in the spring. The first spring I was up
there. we were snowed out for the first week or two.
SP: After your big year in
Selma, you played one more season without much success.
TD: Well, after the 1959 season,
I was faced with military obligations. Back then, they still
had the draft. I was drafted around then and had to meet the
obligation. There was an army reserve program open where you
could go to 6 months active duty, so I entered the service at
the beginning of December and did my service, followed by a reserve
obligation of a weekend a month for two or three years. I think
that was where I hit my stumbling block because I missed spring
training in 1960 and I got to Burlington (Carolina League) during
the season and I hadn’t thrown a pitch all year. I was there
a couple days and they put me in a game. The only throwing I
had done was on the sideline. I immediately developed a sore
arm and never got over it. Things were bad. I got to the point
where I was wild, but not all over the place. My problem was
getting the ball up to home plate. It was evident that I was
having trouble and they sent me back to Minot to work it all
out. I got to Minot and it was cool, of course. I was never able
to get in shape. It was probably the worst place for me at the
time. I don’t use that as a excuse, that was just the way it
was meant to be. That’s the way I look at it. At Minot, toward
the end, I wouldn’t even warm up. I’d got right out of the dugout
and right to the mound because I only had about 20 or 30 pitches
in me at best and I didn’t want to waste them. My arm really
hurt.
SP: In those days, they didn’t
do much for you.
TD: There was no therapy and
you didn’t go to the doctor. As far as I was concerned, it was
the end. My wife and I felt like we needed to make a change in
our life and we did that by accepting an outright release from
the ball club. Like I said, I don’t use the sore arm as an excuse
as to why I didn’t go to the majors. Even so, I still had it
in my mind that maybe I should have made it to the big leagues
. As far as I know, I had received the best contract after the
59 season of any of us. I was contracted to Mobile in the Southern
Association for 1960. I never made it there though. I left Fort
Jackson in South Carolina and went directly to Burlington. Even
though I was in Burlington, I was on the Mobile roster. In the
meantime, I had made my way to Minot. Mobile called the organization
and said, « Where is this guy? ». They were holding a
roster spot for me but I never made it there. I probably had
the ability to go further than I did, but like a lot of players,
something happens and it just doesn’t work out.
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